obvious exploit

Hello! This is not an exploit as Zaify has confirmed that it is intentional, militia rank in a town which is sieged will enable those players to participate in the siege (siege of that specific town itself only) without playtime or voyager requirement.

Not everything will always be changed as per your benefit, everytime your side does not have the upper edge due to something, you make a suggestion to make a change such that it benefits you. Try making suggestions to actually improve the server sometimes, not just because you start losing. (Respectfully)

Oh and one more thing, people cannot be invited to towns once the siege starts, only before the siege to use this feature. So perhaps try to be a bit faster with placing banner in the upcoming sieges if you really want to not have a problem with this, you guys practically announce that you're gonna siege a town days before it happens, giving the opponents time to use this feature.

Inviting random Novice PVPers to someone's unpeaceful town (the only town that can be sieged) and giving them Militia rank so they bypass the traditional requirements to engage in siege warfare is a bypass and therefore I believe it to be an exploit as well. I suggest it is removed because it makes the soldier system completely useless.

You can invite any log-on PvPer months, weeks, days before a siege begins, so it being disabled once the siege starts is irrelevant. The only use of this town rank is cheating the system, not fulfilling it's purpose, whatever Zaify wishes that to be.

You say I'm doing this for personal gain only but what should you be doing when you find a towny mechanism being abused to nullify soldier requirements? IGNORE it?

As Zaify said: "It's intended because we don't want a situation where someone is unable to defend their own town - town military ranks only allow you to defend your own town."

It is clearly being exploited in this siege specifically, so while the towny mechanism is not an exploit, you are using it as an exploit. The same way innocent commands can be exploited.

And to be clear on why this feature is useless: if your nation has no defensive capabilities whatsoever then no amount of militia rank is going to win you a battle. The current state of CCNet geopolitics does simply not allow these types of towns / nations to exist in the first place.

Simply put: the intended purpose does not have the slightest semblance of reality.

You haven't explained why exactly it is an exploit. We prepared in advance, recruited members and got them into a town which we thought would be sieged. Which it did, evidently. These people can only participate in the defense of this town, their own town, and not in any other sieges.

There is only an outcry because we remotely began to outnumber your forces, maybe place the banner earlier so we can't invite people anymore?

The intent is clearly different from "I'm going to siege your nation with 20 log ons while you're able to do nothing about it", that's the reason the voyager + 12 hour restriction exists.

Besides, there is no excuse to be outnumbered as the attacker in an offensive siege. If you begin to lose because of the attacked town's strong manpower base of Militia rank, specifically meant to defend that fort and nothing else, then it is entirely an oversight by your leadership, who should have prepared better or just not placed banner until gathering more numbers.

I find it incredibly hard to digest this suggestion when the side backing it is the same side that remains dead throughout the entire week and spontaneously comes alive on weekends to place the banner on nations that are trying to actually play geopolitics and do nation-building, and then outnumber them for the vast majority of the time.

Please quit complaining and read my reply carefully, you will understand clearly that your argument, as the invader, holds NO WATER. The advantages of the defenders are minimal as we speak.

Ryu speaking facts. How is it an exploit if we prepared in advance? The "lokan loggers" can still not be called during a siege which is the purpose of voyager and 12 h playtime.

Also most of you guys log in for sieges and sieges only please you're not one to talk, most of coalition are imported people that settled down (for sieges only)

>You haven't explained why exactly it is an exploit.
I believe it to be an exploit/bypass because it is not used for it's intended purposes. As Zaify illustrated: ''Town Militia is intended because we don't want a situation where someone is unable to defend their own town''. Meaning this feature is made for towns which have no defensive capabilities. Shimazu on the other hand is well equipped with both resources and coalition PvPers / Lokans.

>There is only an outcry because we remotely began to outnumber your forces
This is false because I made the suggestion when I found out there were novice Lokans participating in the siege which did not have a soldier rank which I thought was odd. At that time the siege balance was equal and so were the numbers. I made this suggestion because I don't think Zaify realizes this is only going to be used to spawn off-server Lokan PvPers into defensive sieges.

>The intent is clearly different from "I'm going to siege your nation with 20 log ons while you're able to do nothing about it", that's the reason the voyager + 12 hour restriction exists.
I disagree, I believe the soldier requirements exist to prevent both sides from calling off-server PvPers whether it be offensive or defensive. Sieges should be fought with CCNet players no matter whether you're a defender or attacker.

>Besides, there is no excuse to be outnumbered as the attacker in an offensive siege. If you begin to lose because of the attacked town's strong manpower base of Militia rank, specifically meant to defend that fort and nothing else, then it is entirely an oversight by your leadership, who should have prepared better or just not placed banner until gathering more numbers. I find it incredibly hard to digest this suggestion when the side backing it is the same side that remains dead throughout the entire week and spontaneously comes alive on weekends to place the banner on nations that are trying to actually play geopolitics and do nation-building, and then outnumber them for the vast majority of the time.
Not related to my suggestion, we're not here to discuss this specific siege but a towny mechanic

>Please quit complaining and read my reply carefully, you will understand clearly that your argument, as the invader, holds NO WATER. The advantages of the defenders are minimal as we speak.
Whether one believes it is an exploit or not does not matter, I believe it should be removed either way because it does not meet and will never meet Zaify's intentions for it's usage.

The question is simple:
Do we want nations to store ready-to-consume Loka PvPers in siege bases, who can enter battle without playing CCNet for more than a minute? Y/N

Frambaby, if the question is one of ACTIVE PLAYERS participating in the sieges then what you suggest is not remotely a solution. You don't want to allow new players to participate in sieges, new players that may develop a genuine interest in the server, but want to allow players who never log on outside of sieges, haven't been active, or built their town in ages, people who ONLY get on for sieges to be allowed to come? Shouldn't you aim for a more holistic definition of "off-server" players? I believe if you really want activity to be a criterion then a one-time system as is currently in place will never work, since it's the same after the initial struggle and grind.

You claim that you want to speak of the towny mechanic in general, but at the same time you admit that you made this suggestion solely due to the fact that this siege happened, and I quote "This is false because I made the suggestion when I found out there were novice Lokans participating in the siege which did not have a soldier rank which I thought was odd. "

Let's also not forget that Russia is infact a relatively NEW NATION, and we have been recruiting novices who aren't just "log ons", it is insubstantial what other servers they play. This new nation is going up against 80% of the powers that be, with newly recruited members who are yet to grasp slimefun or mcmmo fully. Do you want to deny these people the chance to defend their own nation? Who are you to decide whether they deserve this chance or not, whether this is an exploit or not?

One of the advantages to a fort should be the defending side being able to prepare it by mass inscription. ONCE AGAIN, THEY ARE ONLY ABLE TO DO THIS IN THE FACE OF AN ONCOMING INVASION, THIS IS NOT ANYTHING MORE THAN A PREPARATORY MEASURSE.

I cannot fathom how you have twisted and turned Zaify's extremely simple and concise statement to "Meaning this feature is made for towns which have no defensive capabilities. Shimazu on the other hand is well equipped with both resources and coalition PvPers / Lokans." , It is yet to be proven how the "readiness" of the town has anything to do with the subject matter.

You can phrase the question, contort it, misconstrue it in any way or manner to make it fit the needs of your ulterior motives. But let me rephrase it for you in the most unadulterated form possible, close to what Zaify himself once stated:
Do you want town members to be able to defend their own town once it gets invaded? Or do you want them to watch helplessly ?

>You claim that you want to speak of the towny mechanic in general, but at the same time you admit that you made this suggestion solely due to the fact that this siege happened
Indeed, I wasn't aware of this mechanic beforehand as I had never seen it's use. Most of your response is not related to the towny-mechanic but that is solely what I'm here to discuss.

I can write a 12 paragraph response but I think Zaify understands both of our arguments. I don't think this feature will ever meet it's intended purpose, it is nothing more than a soldier-bypass in my eyes.

Well this mechanic was also used in all prior sieges to the current one after the truce so that really is on you, as I'm sure you've attended at least half of the last few sieges I've been to, unless my eyes lied.

And yes, let's allow Zaify to be the judge.

I have actually seen this mechanic used before for defending towns that were not in a nation, yes both of them lost the siege due to being outgunned sure, but they were at least able to fight it out.

Specifically, the USSR (AlphaDarky variant) attacked a small town that actually ended up fighting back using militia rank as they were all novices, and did not have a nation.

Those new players' needs are just as valuable as yours and need to be catered to as well, it's a valuable mechanic and I believe it is good even in the case of Shimazu and Vestfold.

I would also like to state Rome has actually thrown non-pvper novices into battles at Livland before (cosmic notified me of this just now) and many of them have stayed afterward, so it's not even JUST used for off-server pvpers it's also used for recruits as well, even by established nations.

Militia is defensive rank, you can only fight against sieges against the town itself. As well unpeaceful towns under siege are unable to invite people I am fairly sure.