It's about how older nations treat these newer ones, less about the new nations themselves

Take MPR as the example here, they are a fairly new nation that is not full of CCNet vets.

They started negotiating with other nations (like OE, fiji etc) and eventually became vassals of their own free will. They are not controlled or oppressed in said arrangement and are free to do as they please. Both sides benefit and are "happy"

Older nations already have the ability to assist these new nations and help them flourish, it's just that most wont since that extra $50 a day from occupation really helps support their war-driven economy.

Being in such a vulnerable position forces them to engage in politics (something "most" new nations don't touch)

Closing the production advantage between large and small nations also buffs the large nations.

The truth about nations as a game-mode is that the vast majority of people are in fact playing plain old towny.

All of the things you'd associate with Nations are, in practice, a completely foreign concept to new players due to the extreme amount of effort required to get there. Advanced slimefun, mega-forts, movecrafts, designs, towns, soldiers and all the people required to fill these positions are locked behind months of daily grinding. And don't get me started on the PvP side of things which are hopeless if you're not able to compete with the people uploading "MCPvP Kill Compilation" montages to youtube.

The smart thing to do as a new nation is to not compete, never intend compete, stay away from Europe, leech off an Overlord and somehow convince experienced towns to secede and join your nation instead.

Older nations need to chill out and let that tiny unpeaceful town blossom into a nation instead of letting it wither to collect it's $50 upkeep tax as Rick said. Those are the same people hunting novice players and ruining their first experiences.

To be honest I also write this suggestion for myself because if I start a new nation I'd immediately get enemied and sieged from enemy side so I cant have time to grind stuff within 2 weeks to prepare to fend off the entire ccnet world. Also nation building is required to find more ppl that are grinders and pvpers which is a very RARE stock to find but very easy to import from the ppl that play in 90 different townies and its a luxury I never had basically

So yeah if the resources to maintain a proper metagaming fort were easier I'd already have made a nation months ago now lmao. I find the forr maintance required resources to be a headache in general

I agree, what puts off many new nations from developing is mainly the grind and maintenance of such a nation, I agree that grind is necessary for any nation and player base and that's what keeps the server active but the grind for new people is too high, coupled with the fact that they lose sets and grinded materials during sieges which is even more of a blow to an emerging nation since keep inventory does not exist in siege zone. Major nations simply have too much of an edge over younger ones in terms of resources and the only thing that can damage it is another major nation fighting the aforementioned major nation, or a massive coalition of players.

Also rick, no not really, thats unique to Oceania and SEA region because no major sieges happen there frequently, but change the continent to America or even Africa or rest of Asia and its way more different, its either join or die BUT even if you join a coalition if the enemy sieges you, 90% of the time the new nation does not have standards up to what your allies expect so the siege gets abandoned and they get erased. Has happened before since start of the server.

siege defense* gets abandoned

I would really like to hear what newer players think about this. I try to reach out with surveys but most new players who answer are actually too new to give meaningful input, and generally ask for minor wiki clarifications or things like adding nukes.

So if you're a new player lurking and reading this message, I'd love to know your thoughts. It seems like a lot of medium-sized towns just disappear without ever giving feedback.

I should add that surveys and suggestions also suffer from selection bias, i.e., disgruntled new players won't bother giving feedback and will just leave. So if you are in touch with newish players who have left, I'd also like to request that you relay their concerns to this thread.

I agree, Wabbitistan was painful to set up, and I have no idea if/when i will get sieged and what I will do to defend my nation, allies are fat and probably won't help, coalition has lots of random lokans to attack me and the only real solution is to just grind more. It's coming into place but this is months after my plans to make Wabbitistan started, since December I wanted to split and only in March have i grinded the bare minimum to survive a siege. And don't even get me started about recruiting. New players don't want to stay longer than a minute due to the masses of dull monotonous no lifing they have to do and veteran players have all already chosen where to live, 90% of my nation is very new players. And even then the few i have are out of HUNDREDS i've tried to recruit but have left, to a new player they want to get into the action but the way sieges work and the fact there is nothing that enjoyable other than weekend sieges makes it very hard to retain players longer than half an hour. I have no idea how to fix this but it does need to be fixed. My idea for you Zaify is to make a big discussion channel about how to retain new players and features/fixes that you could add to solve the issues.

this ^^ wabbit actually has experienced this firsthand in trying to make a nation from scratch

> "coupled with the fact that they lose sets and grinded materials during sieges which is even more of a blow to an emerging nation since keep inventory does not exist in siege zone"

That's true, but most new nations don't seem to stay active enough to the point where they are besieged. At any rate, keeping gear won't stop them from getting steamrolled. They typically don't have the pots, Movecraft or PvP ability to hold out for long.

The case for keep inventory is more compelling if we switch to the problem of nations banning new players from sieges. Then a recruit dying at least won't cost you gear. Still, it's not a silver bullet. For one, they would still lose points. Moreover such a change would have many other ramifications for sieges.


> " It's about how older nations treat these newer ones, less about the new nations themselves"

I agree this is a factor. I find it difficult to see what benefit GNE gained from besieging Mohad Caliphate; or MEU from besieging Kenya; or Rome from besieging New Germany. Maybe there's some political context I'm missing here, but to me they just seemed like sieges fought for the sake of map painting/free plunder without any genuine diplomatic build-up or engagement. Certainly Kenya seemed dumbfounded as to why they were attacked. From my standpoint, these sieges made three small nations quit while giving the occupying nations paltry sums of money that could easily have been earned through other means.

This seems to be a recurring theme and it has made me consider imposing restrictions on who a nation can ally, enemy and besiege.


> "Closing the production advantage between large and small nations also buffs the large nations."

But I also agree here. To me, it's unclear what change can be made to ease the life of new nations without allowing large nations to benefit as much or even more. In other words, the disparity could remain or even widen. I'm open to concrete suggestions on this since I personally have no ideas to offer.

Im Berry and I have moved a lot. One of the main reasons Ive moved is to flourish in land thats away from the meta. That way I could have a nation and not be threatened and make free money and not have to grind too much but like I stated its an era where the only safe option is like Antarctica, lol.

Starting a new nation is hard, fort is the easiest part, the rest are constant maintance and non permanent resources u just lose. A fort is always there. If I, an old player, is experiencing these I can only imagine what a new player that wants to start a new nation suffers from. The thing is new players being new players theyre rather ignorant and filled with optimism and naivity so like they make new nations with no fort no resources and call it a day till the moment they get sieged and erased.

Zaify I think making grinding easier in general is an universal QOL acceptance from every player. Only some grinders will disagree. Thats my opinion atleast

Realest suggestion
Sahara formed november 2022 immidiately gets sieged the next month on early December
If it was not for the painful preparation done by z4 me sam and a few notable others we would've been occupied
If you look at africa, 2 nations have suffered the same fate as they get sieged immidiently after forming (Songhai and somalia)
After the fall of songhai my town basically died with only me and the mayor having to pay the upkeep
Nothing happened for a few months until sam left GNE due to internal disagreements
No nation 1v1 with eachother anymore, its either you join a mega alliance or stay out of geopol long enough until your prepared to join one
Moreover you could say NCE and SS 1V1'd but they ran to coalition for help as soon as they got steamrolled
I believe more QOL should be added for new and preexisting nations to prosper in terms of nation building, (like my suggestion to make molten convert mud to clay, evidently would make it an OP method for farming Terracotta however making it drop brick blocks instead is a good compromise)
Fostering growth instead of decadance should be a criteria for suggestions as I've not seen a QOL suggestion other from berry
P.S ty camb and panda for hiding my dupe stash XOXO :3

New nation's can't expect to be on par with older, more established nations.
But with 3 new nations appearing in asia as of recently, I think there is a major contrast in the way eastern nations treat these smaller nations, be it though choice or simply being oblivious to their existence.

To help zaify i'll try and talk to these new nations to see what they think of the political climate (if they engage in it at all)

de-incentivizing nations of a larger size from engaging with small nations that pose no threat to them would be a good thing (E.G A higher upfront cost which they would then struggle to make back)

I mean zaify it would be way efficient if a discord channel could be made where we can discuss ideas for this with staff ngl

1 aspect of this I want to focus on is how berry mentioned the massive grinding needed to support a siege as a new nation or just any nation in general. We've gone from 15-25 player sieges last year to the now 60-80 player sieges that have happened recently. This requires insane amounts of resources to be generated to even be able to compete. Sieges these days frequently use 200-300 dubs of pots per side, which costs tens of thousands of dollars at least in raw materials. 2 things id like to see implemented would be a much cheaper way to make pots (perhaps let the 18 or 24 karat slime fun gold be used to make glistering melon) and a limit for the amount of ppl that can be at a siege. I feel at though both of these ideas would help new nations be able to actually have a chance at competing, while also improving ccnet siege preparations in general.

However, the fact is that there is and will always be a big gap between the experience, knowledge, resources and skill of established nations versus new nations made by new players. I think that the types of players that naturally join ccnet is the main causation for this big gap, not just the strength of established nations. I've noticed during my years of playing ccnet that most of the new players have little to no experience with slimefun, movecraft, siegewar, and towny in general. The players who are established on ccnet generally had previous experience in these fields (whether it be from playing n1, other geopolitical servers, or other towny/slimefun servers). And the rest of the established players were recruited from friend groups of ppl in established nations. Very few established players had absolutely no experience in the aforementioned fields when they started out on n2.

That said, I fully believe that if players from other geopol/siegewar servers came to ccnet they would be able to make nations successfully and compete in the geopolitical climate instead of being crushed immediately by territorial nations. So really, the types of players joining ccnet is a big reason why their nations don't end up being successful or sticking around very long.

Gqldn thats true because they're ALREADY EASTABILISHED people. They have people willing to sacrifice hella hours of life on resources (GRINDERS) cuz most likely they come from successful nations from their home servers. Im talking about funding a new nation in here. No people, no resources. Even if you have the raw resources, refining them into war resources is a headache that takes weeks of dedicated grinding.