i would usually Voice Chat about a topic alot better than type cause while i type i think at the same time, i do not prepare paragraphs before typing suggestion, i can discuss things alot better and settle my mind alot better than it looks like in my writing, i will be glad to vc any time with anybody from ccnet staff team to discuss this topic, i have solid arguments and mindsets about this, alot of shared opinions, i speak not only for myself but for alot more people.

"4) stop gunspammers, gun spammers hold weapon which is 3x stronger and cheaper than netherite sword with strength 2, they are basically ranged netherite swords with strength 2 but even stronger, and now after they die they will just come back and do the exact same thing cause guns and ammo isn't as expensive as sets (sets are cheap too). "

Lmao ijust lmao

> so zaify made sieges more cheap, alot more cheap and unexpensive

I would love to agree with this if it was actually provided with full context. What was made cheap is equipment since you keep it on death. To know if its not expensive now you need to look at all aspects combined and see how much sets alone contribute. First of all you need to gear all people with initial sets. These are the ones people start with. Once war starts you kill some people and you also die by them. Sometimes you kill more sometimes you die more. If a nation you are fighting is equal to you then you gain as much as you lose sets so it doesnt matter if they drop or if you keep in terms of money. Other than sets there are also potions which cost about 100 per full inventory which is only 5% of the equipment costs per refill. There are also costs for preparing the siege as attacker and defender with tanks, cannons, shells and other stuff.

What would this result to? If you arent that scared of losing items it should be easier now to make more bold moves, to rush in and sacrifice your life for a kill and other aggressive plays. Kills grant points which now you can get less of (with capping) with 16+ players participating on every side, kills also increase the warchest so winning will give you money instead of sets (warchest increase per kill can be higher if the next wars prove to give too little rewards). To avoid people not showing up after they are losing since they have no gains there can also be added some participation rewards

> gun spammers hold weapon which is 3x stronger and cheaper than netherite sword with strength 2

Ah yes, the famous quote of "If guns are so strong now why does everyone still use swords". Swords have about 2x more dps if you can land hits constantly. Guns have less dps but can hit enemies for quite a longer period of time. Not to mention the fact that if 2 people are crit spamming eachother landing a shot on the enemy from far away is a 50/50 if you have good aim since you will hit your ally

> sieges will transform from strategical and brain using sieges to useless, pointless, riskless kindergarten

I love the strategy and brain i used when i go to sleep and some random guy defends my town and its now nuked fully and i cant even repair it. Pauses are not only to "reset" the fort allowing more "rounds" instead of just one mistake ending the whole siege, they are also actual pauses meaning you do not have to be there for 12 hours a day like a no life 30yo living in a basement. More rounds also serve as a training since you constantly need to improve plans to accomplish the goal better and faster. "like getting on enemy roofs, keeping them occupied, etc" is preventing them from regaining their solid footing on the situation and making it unplayable for them in the future sessions. We have seen those situations happen within the first sessions and if done correctly prevents the defenders fully for the rest of the war. I do not mind that kind of gameplay, matter of fact i think its good but I do not think that its ok for an amazing or even perfectly played out session or two to result in complete and total victory in the full 48 hour war. It should give a good advantage instead of a whole win.

> "Nations Sieges Training Camp"

Man basically told them to play a tutorial gamemode before they hop into nations 💀

Also not to mention that grinding for a war aint the whole gameplay of nations. So for some people less time needed to prepare for wars would allow them to spend their time elsewhere, preferably on developing peaceful towns to make them look good or other infrastructure

Like i said, i speak for many, lets say 40, and u guys are 2. Besides this, i speak on guns in pvper perspective, a very experienced pvper. and trust me, gunners do more damage than pvpers, dont teach what u dont experience

>gunners do more damage than pvpers, dont teach what u dont experience

I have been shooting people in sieges. If by "more damage" you mean the fact that guns can do 3 hearts per hit then that is not more damage. It takes more than 1.5 seconds for the bolt action rifles to shoot (not counting reload. If you count reload then you get 1 shot per average 2 seconds). A sword in that time gets 2.5 hits in that deal 1.5-2 hearts each. To deal more damage with rifles you need the enemy to be suppressed. For that you require 2 people to deal 1.5x damage. Even with this alone it shows that swords do more damage than guns. The only way guns do more damage is the fact that you can consistently do damage from a longer range for quite a long period of time or if quite a lot of people focus the same guy. Focusing the same person is also possible in melee vanilla via axes. Due to lower axe attack speed 2 people can alternate hits on a single enemy for maximum damage outcome (ask zaify to add netherite axes and maybe buff their damage by a bit). To avoid getting focused by a group of enemy snipers you can be in a group of people which is what happens in 99% of the sieges when there is a fight happening. This prevents the gun spammers from hitting half of the shots due to hitting friendly players instead of enemies. There is also always some block walls near the banner so vision for guns aint the best. "dont teach what u dont experience" is what i experienced in the recent sieges while using guns

> Like i said, i speak for many, lets say 40, and u guys are 2

If you speak for 40 people i dont see 40 upvotes. I do know that a lot of pvpers do agree with it but that is because yall got used to the stereotypical combat and want to preserve it being fully vanilla to the end.

Explosions being off during pauses means the war is no longer full 12 hours of having to defend your town. That is good. You have been a merc for quite some time so maybe you lost the feeling of how it is being stressed about people not doing what they are meant to while defending causing you to be drilled and having to log off since you cant repair it. Its not fun playing with one side having to log off regardless of what side you are on. No one wants to play against inactive enemy. If you want one successful push to result in a victory of attackers maybe suggest zaify to change the war system from siegewar to og wars where you have to reach their homechunk in the middle of the town

Not dropping sets on death only affects the side that can get more kills than deaths. If you are that stronger than the enemy then you should be able to win the whole siege with these new offline capping limitations and therefore get rewards via warchest and occupation which should compensate more than the sets you would have gotten. If you do not win as said above maybe there could be some reward for participation and kills that could be in the same rank as getting the sets themselves. Those things should fully compensate the prices and worth of sets and kills. If that is still not what pvpers want then its about getting *SOMEONES* sets and not getting *THE* sets themselves. At that points its more about the feeling of "haha I got your items, L bozo" and "Thanks for the free sets" than the kills not being rewarding

You’ve essentially just advocated for the towny gamemode without actually saying “towny”…lol

No, we’re not going to remove another gamemode and split the nations playerbase just because you in particular don’t like towny. It’s incredibly strange to suggest “get rid of gamemode I don’t like so we can have the same exact gamemode under a different name!”

Also I forgot to mention the fact that in a sword duel with someone your armor should fall to around 25% durability after you use up full inventory of pots anyways (which I mentioned in other suggestions and questions channel). Though that is just for boots and helmet, possibly suggest to zaify to make diamond+netherite chestplate and pants take extra durability damage so that they too have a higher chance to drop. And that is when you start to fight people with a full durability armor. There are times when people wont repair their armors to full durability

cool story but as said in #development its an experimental change.

Now for all the people making a mountain out of this nothing burger. you're missing out the point that this is limited keep inventory that means If an item would lose enough durability to break, it will instead drop if the player carrying it dies. And I hope these 40 experienced guys know that item dura goes down within 5 mins in a proper banner session.

Lets see how low the armor pieces need to be before they get dropped according to the 25% dura, helmet - 90, chestplate - 132, leggins - 123, boots - 107. Talking from my own experience it takes a minimum of 4 minutes before my helmet goes down to below 68 dura, with a bit of brain usage anyone can see that guns and movecraft chip out dura faster than vanilla pvp and hence if used in combo it will result in a faster dura drop and eventual item drop will still exist if people just use the fabled "strategic" gameplay a bit more to look into the mechanics of this update.

Im not a fan of tearing up peoples points but having a bit of experience in ccnet sieges doesnt grant you basically infinite wisdom on any topic cause you mention OGs and lord is literally one of them LOL, and now from my experience with keepinv servers and trust me Ive been on a lot of servers not just ccnet. it helps increase pace of pvp as more people are ready to rush in and fight and people can jump in enemy fallers/ganks and actually enjoy more pvp than what we are getting right now where its just a few people enjoying it and rest of the newbies are rather sitting on walls with guns or tanks. you're looking at these changes through your rose colored glasses missing out the bigger picture.

Let me also clear out these so called war profits. 1 set offers you about 1k, at an average a pvper will get about 10-15 kills of a siege giving them 15k that they will store in a chest and never actually use cause they go to sieges without their own gear thru /suicide and are provided gear so these people are just storing up vaults for themselves (I say this cause I also have dubs of chest filled with sets from different sieges). Sets are not an item drain nor a siege profit as lord has mentioned above, they are most the time traded in sieges as both sides if powerful will equally die. Now lets lets get to the real big ballers money dollars, potions cost a lot as people know it and about 300 dubs of heals are common in current sieges, that comes to about 51-55k, if I was to add in all potion costs then we'd easily be around 90-100k, dang thats a lot of money but it doesnt really stop there lmfao, yall do remember movecraft right cause that needs to be added to this cost as well cause shipyard printing takes money and you need a ton of movecraft to fight, lets chip it around another 50k minimum. Now lets try to assume SF items cause ofc we need that for a siege base too. making a base costed a up few thousand dollars and what not so lets take a rough assumption of all SF items, igneous/fuel and whatnot and ohh duct tape too and we are in upwards of another 25-30k. lets now add this all up together we get about 180k right? 30 sets of 30k just make about 16% of this total.


Now your whole concern that this change will make sieges unfun is just for that 16% net gain? that you will most prolly not receive cause sets are traded and just cause a few people are getting them doesn't translate to the majority.

Again its an experimental change, have some patience and play the game so we have some data about things and how to move forward with it.

Perp being very fakshual rn except what I think is gun doing durability dmg, that has either been severely nerfed or removed like a year ago, I could be wrong

"Average pvper" is the people who steal all the kills from normal people who also contribute towards dealing damage to them. Although counting their personal gain is fine it would have been cool to know total kills/deaths ratio on sieges and number of participants to know the exact gain from sets. Would be even cooler if its displayee as a statistic on the banner under the current points

I can agree with ijust's suggestion but i think that the better thing to do is just to put keepinv on small nation sieges and turn off keepinv on big nation sieges because big nations as I've said have grinders to make sets and organized unpeacful towns with xp farms so it's easier to make sets and swords.

"They have grinders" as if it is fun for one person to just sit there and make sets while the rest of the 20 clowns are vibing and spending their hard work over the days. Big nations have people who can indeed spend time on that however if the grind for that is less that would also allow them to spend time doing something else that they want or need to do. Making towns is also part of nations gameplay and so far over 1-2 years the same big nations have up to two or three towns with a bit more houses