if not fully remove, maybe 1 keep inv per siege

yeah thats what i said like 1 keep inv is ok more is too much

I still don't agree with this for the reasons I've outlined in previous threads.

1. What "feels correct" is not always the best for balance: In this case, looting defeated enemies "feels correct" but it disproportionately harms weaker and smaller nations more than larger nations, because players belonging to the latter category will die more often. Can anyone look at the political landscape and sincerely say that we a buff to large, established nations is what we need right now? If anyone does, I would be interested to know why.

2. The principle of "loss aversion": Loss aversion states that people will feel the pain of losing an item approximately twice as strongly as gaining the same item. People value sets, so this effect is significant. If they didn't value them, you wouldn't be making this suggestion and veteran players wouldn't be screaming at inexperienced players for dying and losing sets.

3. The playerbase's attitude to new players: The large nations have stopped recruiting and training new players because they are "free sets" who don't deserve to go to sieges. This is bad for player retention and playerbase development. Note that I am talking about "normal" new players rather than people pulled from PvP servers. I am also not talking about "recruiting" new players by inviting their town to your nation for free claims and ignoring them until they quit.

People haven’t stopped recruiting new players and training them , Sahara and Nordic conquerers do it all the time. New players often make a nation near one of those two nations and if they don’t, it’s somewhere like America or Asia which is usually very peaceful towards new nations.

Set drops were one of the main incentives for people to start sieges, now it’s just occupation. Set drops was one of the reasons PvP was actually fun so you had something to gain. But now if you’re good all you get is an extra kill on your sword and that’s it, and if you die you lose a binding rune. I got roughly around 18 kills during carbopolis siege but only gained a single helmet, and I lost around 7-8 binding runes. Sacrificing enjoyment of all PvPers so a few new players don’t lose sets which are very easy to make.

Why shouldn’t I just go to a prac server where I don’t get gunned down, debuffed and falling into a gank to get my feet tickled? It’s essentially the same as no set drops on ccnet but more fun. imo no set drops is killing ccnet

> I am also not talking about "recruiting" new players by inviting their town to your nation for free claims and ignoring them until they quit.

Thats a whole another issue that has to do with the servers gamemode and not quite if you want to use them or not. Basically the issue is that if you are the one inviting people to your town, you are the one who has to entertain them to stay instead of the server mechanics giving them some kind of a hint or goal path to follow. Server mechanics provide tools for mayors to entertain them like showing them a cool zeppelin or a ship and driving them around a bit but ultimately it requires your effort to use those tools to entertain them. You basically need to create quite a good town setup to entertain them or you give them authority in the town so they feel like they are doing work too

Sandbox gamemode is a double edged sword. While it gives quite a lot of freedom to people who know what they are doing, its giving too much freedom to people who are new to it and they easily get lost by not knowing what to do or not having a goal visible

> "Sacrificing enjoyment of all PvPers so a few new players don’t lose sets which are very easy to make."

If they are "very easy" to make, why are people screaming and shouting at players who die for losing sets? Surely it's not a big deal to lose them, then, and equally as not a big deal if you gain them? The attitude of certain players is just as serious of an issue. I keep bringing this up because I have reports about this from almost every major nation. It leaves a very sour taste in some people's mouths - to the extent that some never want to touch the server again.

> Set drops were one of the main incentives for people to start sieges, now it’s just occupation.

If sets are "very easy" to make, then why would they be one of the "main incentives" to start sieges? Something isn't adding up for me.

Kills not feeling like they are worth much is maybe even due to the fact that the siege system is point based and not objective based. In objective based systems you would need to kill the enemy to be able to advance towards the objective (passing a wall, capturing areas of the town and so on). In objective based war systems it also means that if you want to advance deep into the enemy town or whatever you need to do it till the end meaning if you kill someone and collect their sets, you going back to store that set will reset your progress towards that objective, while going forwards may lead to you dying with all the sets gained. You can always just ransack the place by attacking it getting kills and going back but that wont get you much progress (if dropping is enabled)

Of course, the problem with an objective-based system is that no good one exists, at least within the context of Towny servers. Anything that requires capturing chunks in towns will invariably degenerate into a gank and trapfest unless the staff and playerbase are strict roleplayers, or if the towns are pre-built. Constant monitoring of towns is not feasible and pre-built towns depart from the essence of Towny.

And because of this change some players who liked ccnet may not play anymore because they don't enjoy it.

^ As you said before new people wont play because of them losing sets or whatever reason and because of keep inventory its supposed to change that. The older players who used to play ccnet alot more have either stopped playing or barely play because of some of these new changes including this one. Its taking out the fun part of sieged and killing people doesnt feel rewarding anymore at all. Either give players something else rewarding for kills or remove keep inventory

Let's take a look at the "new changes":

1. Explosions are only enabled during battle sessions
2. Block HP is damaged less quickly
3. To prevent nightcapping, there is a dynamic limit on how many people can cap

These, in my opinion, are eminently reasonable changes that everyone can agree with. While I can understand frustration with keep inventory, I do not see why the "older players" would have a problem with any of the above.

nah With that the sieges are interesant

I'm going to be honest now, I don't dislike the change that took place in the sieges, I really feel that now more people participate and take risks but the fact that I don't dislike it does not make me enjoy it, being a player who used to win approximately 3 double chests of stuff for each siege it hurts me that now all I do is lose pots (which I brewed myself). I understand the point of the change and I don't really dislike it at all but at the same time I don't think it's necessary to have keepinventory present throughout all the siege. As I have already spoken with many people I think that keepinventory is causing people to play very foolishly and this can affect the points of a siege and the result of it. As a suggestion (what I would do) is first of all remove the keepinventory when there is no session present, this is because many people spend tons of pots and mats fight out of session just because they don't lose anything, also you don't have to take a risk if there is not even a session present. The next change that I would see feasible is that the keepinventory is present only 2 or 1 time per player in each session, this would prevent people who die too much from continuing to take risks and harming their team and the sieges results.

never seen a grinder complain about the change ever you guys waffle too hard

Sets are easy to make but it’s not fun to grind them.

and still I don’t see any difference with the number of new players coming to sieges from before keep inventory was added and now , I think less people have been going to sieges actually. I see that most people disagree with keep inventory but are being ignored

So many contradictions

"Sets are easy to make"

"Sets are the objective for sieges"

WHAT?

If you want sets go ask your grinder for some because you clearly don't care about them.

The only people complain about keep inv is people who have never worked a day in their lives.

Carb, that's wrong.

I can personally verify that ALOT of players wouldn't have been allowed at my siege had their been no keep inventory. Why? Because sets come from a person they don't come out of nowhere, instead.

Keep inventory off sessionnmakesnno sense.

Why would anyone ever go out and PvP off session??

Zaify theres alot of players who dont like it i know u are trying the best but caut you see that all you are doing is listenin to alliance like renforced set removed cant bomb cant cap more than 8 cant drop set this server basicly became just for new players to play and for people who dont know pvp i dont find fun anymore in those sieges tbh its just forcing to go to defend cause u need to keep the territories thats all u dont win anything expect territory and money these sieges are basicly not even challanging a enemy can enter ur ganks kill all the people that are low that jumped and just remove his set and gg free points u are just making no sense.

Its obvious these new changes ruined the way of how sieges work. Its summer holidays and theres barely any sieges. Theres used to be big sieges every week but now theres only 1 semi-big siege every month. Its obvious people don't enjoy playing sieges anymore and i really just started seeing the number of sieges going down after the new changes were implemented.

"Its obvious people don't enjoy playing sieges anymore and i really just started seeing the number of sieges going down after the new changes were implemented."
I dont think the issue is keep inventory here buddy, but rather the fact the whole world is ganging on 3 nations fighting 1:4 in Britain every week because theyre all allied with each other so there is like 2 fronts in the whole server where everyone dogpiles at.

I dont understand how people complain about keep inv when they say that they make 3 dubs of sets per siege. Thats literally the whole reason keep inv is added. You make 3 dubs of sets and those sets are out from the server, untouched, in some locked basement. On the other hand newbs could work 1 week on a set thats in ur locked dub (plenty of people ive killed have begged me in /msg saying it took them a whole week or its all they have)

Personally I dont lose any sets in sieges more than I have gained and although I dont make "dubs" of sets Im still on a loss of profit but I dont complain about sets.

I think keep inv is a good implementation and all the arguments against it so far have been pointless. They all argue how "hurr durr i cant get 90 dubs of sets" as if that isnt quite literally the reason its implemented. Why do you need 90 sets from a siege on a new nation? The damage you do to them is permanent and impossible to recover without heavily investing into industry relating sets, but you want them to essentialy grind sets for you and nation leaders from nations that dont import pvpers from club penguin to restrict their whole populace from fighting so pvpers can stop any nation without a single bit of resistance.

Where is the fun in that? Are you saying that more people being mobilized to defend their nations is a bad thing?

Even before when thracia was getting ganged by 5 nations basicly whole server back then (i have proof over 100 screenshots) we didnt cope about that its not cause of gangin up its basicly no rewards for anything u do u just lose stuff in siege now u gain nothing only the guy who places banner gains money thats it the keep inv and stuff is added by staff and coalition vs alliance is something else there might be things that ppl dont like from alliance basicly ive heard that alliance is too toxic in vcs and stuff i dont know exacly but people or nations can side with who they want thats not ur problem problem is server updates cause if you like sieges that much u can go even if outnumbered not talkin about u cause u gunspam more thab you pvp so u might like all the updates but as i said people or nations can side with who they want and noone can change that.

Remember berry u were in our side back then u might remember all of it

”renforced set removed” cus u dont take damage when wearing it. Ur the only one using it wrecker cus ur terrible at the game , he’s not only listening to alliance. All pvpers from both sides agreed that reinforced boots being disabled and I’m alliance wanting keep inventory to be removed. there isn’t any bias from zaify it’s just to make the game more balanced.

i dont care about the boots its just a thing to mention and all the people who want the keep inv are still from ur side only and u cant change that

If keep inventory is encouraging behavior from combatants that is stupid then penalize repeated deaths by increasing it linearly.

Mate carb how u calling my boy wrexker terrible at pvp when your not any better. In my opinion if its alr for zaify and the admins and the team that develops ccnet, can you make it so that the nation that places the banner can choose if the seige has keep inventory on or keep inventory off. If not its fine but atleast make it so that people drop sworda and tools as at this moment people go to seige gain nothing and loose binding and thats about it , so people dropping swords and tools at death will atleast motivate players to not reclessly jump in ganks and loose points.