These aren't "balances" these are just things you aren't good at lol. Shields do nothing but balance combat, they help balance guns, kb swords, ganks and outnumbered fights. Also use an axe?
Debuffs are just another way a player can prepare for a fight along with everything else, they add an extra skill component to the game, and their presence in the meta requires costs for sets to go up, as crossbows and arrows have to be made. This again only helps to balance the meta as there is a higher entry cost and a higher reward potential for fights.
If this was a FFa server I could understand removing these PvP features, but CCNet combat is fun because of it's depth, and nerfing/ removing shields and debuffs would just strip extra layers off the meta.

Neb, there aren't any skills spamming debuff potions, they are only making the game annoying

neboogles, if you ask a pvper like t2 or t3 that you know about the crossbow and shields spam i would love to know his opinion. Everyone know that you are defending "your side" because who spam that during battles? You should try to play more pvp to understand how the things works! OH why you dont ask Fqrtex?

you can't carry an axe?

How is nearfing Shields making pvp more equal and also its ur problem if u dont have 3 iron to make axe to cancel shield.

Guys, i will leave here one example of one of the biggest servers of diamond pot with pvp 1.9, LOKA, on loka you can use debuff resistance potion and also the shield is nerfed. No one says nothing about that and everyone agree. If you guys want to play using shields and axes go play UHC.

"you can't carry an axe?" Yeah I can, but I need to carry more things, like sword, food, pearls, gun with ammo and compass OHHH I have space for like 20 pots, but wait I need speed and strenght pots, now I have space for 12 healts pots, nice, how is this possible? How am I going to do pvp with 12 potions? not to mention that coordinating the ax with the shield is difficult.

Hypixel is an even bigger server than Loka, lets go back to 1.8pvp!!!!!
Or..... maybe we shouldn't because CCNet isn't either of those servers, and comparing CCNet to those servers is pretty useless. The people who PvP and play on CCNet aren't here for FFA, like I said. CCNet combat is grimy and full of depth: guns, tanks, ships, debuffs, shields, ganks, runes.
There is just as much skill in using debuffs as there is in using ganks or pearls, ways that you can prepare before the fight that give you an unfair survival advantage. That's just how CCNet combat is, and that is the reason that players from Loka often hate this server, because they can't wrap their heads around the depth of combat.
You say I should go play UHC if I want to keep the meta the way it is, how about if you can't handle the depth of CCNet combat, and you'd like to see it dumbed down to swords, pots and pearls, you go play on a server that has those ideals.

neboogles, when you start dying to crossbows with debuffs arrows and shields and you or the coalition try to make a sugestion i will send all the things you guys are saying here, because with this mechanics you guys are just making ccnet cringe and annoying. But if you want lets do it.

If you guys want to use that minecraft mechanics to get advantages we will do the same at double, i hope you can enjoy ccnet very much mr. neboogles.

I think you still don't understand that this only leaves the ccnet weaker and more empty and I think that this is not good for the server and even for the players, but if you want to continue like this, you can be sure that sooner or later there will be no more sieges on ccnet.

Sqnky I was born in the fraud sir, I am not phased by grimy tactics.
However I agree, when stuff becomes objectively unbalanced that is when it should be tackled.
In this case, you haven't said anything that would point to shields or debuffs being "unbalanced", you've basically just complained about their existence. If you give an actual argument for balance changes then I am happy to listen, but sweeping comments about removing/ nerfing large portions of the CCNet meta just because they annoy you is not the way to get change done.

neboogles... mentioning hypixel is not an intelligent thing... where is pot pvp on hypixel? Ccnet combat is a mix of things yes, but the base is still the potpvp not FFA as you mentioned, and don't worry about the meta it will change and you will have to adapt to it(if you can)

Sqnky we must be watching different clips because that is the most normal CCNet fight I have ever seen.
If you dont like shields you should bring an axe, or be good enough to play around a shield.

Are u trying to make this server like loka or what? Just carry an axe lmao

""you can't carry an axe?" Yeah I can, but I need to carry more things, like sword, food, pearls, gun with ammo and compass OHHH I have space for like 20 pots, but wait I need speed and strenght pots, now I have space for 12 healts pots, nice, how is this possible? How am I going to do pvp with 12 potions? not to mention that coordinating the ax with the shield is difficult."
your point is that you don't have space for an axe in your inventory. literally no argument, just a you problem. and there are so many solutions to that too.
"axe with the shield is difficult." - its not and sounds like a you problem

Hi my friend xtinc_t, you don't say anything with anything, but that's it, an inventory has 36 spaces, one for sword, one for food, one for weapon, one for ammo, one for pearls and one for compass, so there are 30 left spaces, and you always take 8 potions of speed and strength, thus having 22 spaces, if I take an ax I will only have 21 spaces for healing potions, which is VERY little, but since you almost don't do pvp, you don't know what that's it.
In relation to fighting a shield it is difficult yes, if you try you will see that it is difficult, but once again you don't do pvp so you don't know, but as already said by Sqnky_ and TheTechnos_ if you want to use it good luck then.

And I'm seriously thinking about carrying milk bottles in my inventory.

I could maybe get on board with a way to remove debuffs. But it would have to be a consumable item and not cheap.

Maybe I don't know enough about PvP but I'm not really convinced that shields need to be nerfed. Or at least not in the way you proposed. If they had to be nerfed, then making axes disable them for longer would be better, in my opinion. I think your suggestion would make axes much less useful.

Zaify, this comment section is 2 sided as always:
1 side - lokan-ccnet players who play on lot of different servers and they can’t handle simple vanilla items since they are soft.
2 side - ccnet players who actually enjoy ccnet as it is, and they don’t compare it to some random pvp-only focused server (Loka).

Nor shields nor debuffs need nerf and i will explain why.
Shields is pretty much already explained so i’ll just add one bonus to it and move to debuffs.
Shield is used mostly because of ganks, guns, tanks, and to pvp laggers, if you are lagging and double hitting me from 7 blocks i aint got no choice to pull up god damn vanilla shield who can prevent u from getting free hits on me.

And about debuffs, looking at your argument: ,,i cant carry axe cause i need slots in inventory for potions”, my guy, debuffs also take place in inventory, meaning the person is low on potions too. Plus person is wasting lot of slots for debuffs (1+), but carrying axe only takes one. Im horrible shield spammer and Sqnky_ can’t handle it, skill issue. Even random newbie pvper handled my shield spamming like nothing, just learn to play against shield, 99.9% of ccnet players cant use shield properly

i agree with debuffs because there is no way to counter it except using debuffs urself, but shields can be countered by players. there are ways to fight shield even without an axe (here is an example of me killing a player who is better than me and has a shield in a 1v1 https://streamable.com/pf5sjd). a lot of players don't like to practice pvp and don't pvp often except for sieges, so they need a shield to keep up with some of the competitive players. nerfing shield would just discourage them from going. neb's arguments about shield are all good

debuffs have no counter except using debuffs urself tho. i wouldn't say that all debuffs are op, like slowness and poison. they're just annoying game mechanics, so those don't have to be nerfed (i would prefer if they were tho). weakness is a very op effect tho, it negates almost all damage increased from strength, so it's like the player is fighting without buffs. if u have weakness and the enemy doesn't, then u will always lose that fight even if u are significantly better. the only way to counter that is bringing weakness too, but then it just makes fights slow and dull

Shields are pretty much unusable once you are over 180ms unless you grind axe PVP. Shields also can reduce gun damage and spamming shields would mitigate a lot of the gun damage. I think the shield cooldown should be increased once disabled, and I think that's enough tbh. Around 10 seconds of shield cooldown is more than enough.

Zaify I agree with you that increasing shield disable cooldown is perfect

Also yeah turtle there is no real way to counter debuffs

Skil issu

Sounds like a skill issue. I can make you a step by step guide on how to left crit with an axe if you would like it. And like Torque said maybe if everyone has less then 90 ping this would be a fair argument, however most players get 100+ ping making shields a 'only option' for them.

no im talking about how shields actually are unfair for people above 160ms, because shield delay is majorly felt at that ping when you try to use the shields at those pings. Until that ping, shields are fine, and honestly, if you can disable enemy shields for a longer period of time, it sounds like a fair tradeoff

There are two seperate arguments here, and since I think the argument against debuffs has way more merit I'll talk about shields.

I can see why this very specific group of players is mad at shields, shields offer a fantastic advantage to longtime CCNet players over PvPers. People who practice PvP often don't practice with shields, so when these players are called in to fight in sieges and other fights, they are infuriated when a "lower tier" player can use a shield and defend themselves. To see why this is, consider that the fastest DPS with a sword is a crit chain. Good Pvpers can easily break a crit chain by countering with a combo, however people who aren't "Pvpers" have difficulty. The best choice here for a worse pvper is to flat out counter the crit chain with a shield. So as you can see, shields lower the disparity between Pvpers and normal players, which is why nerfing shields would be a bad thing for the CCNet meta as a whole.

Literally the only actual argument of merit I've seen against shields so far is that they are bad for people above a certain ping. This is certainly the truth to this and it's regrettable that shields, among many other things, become difficult to deal with when you have high ping. However, as I said, basically the entire combat meta is changed/ worsened by having high ping, thats just how the game functions. Even Loka players and tier list makers under "ideal" pvp conditions still designate people with high ping (laggers) in a different class as people with low ping.

The argument about debuffs has way more merit, especially debuff potions.

Debuff potions offer low risk, high reward. If you've ever tried to PvP with these potions, you know it's effectively luck how much you hit someone with them without hitting yourself. Get lucky enough to hit a player face on with a weakness potion, and that person has 3-4 minutes where they effectively have no strength. I believe this is a 20%-40% debuff to damage. (correct me if wrong). This is the same for low risk, high reward for luck situation for other debuffs: poison ect. In this case, I can definitely see an argument to remove these potions.

However debuff arrows are a completely different story, there is basically no luck involved, only a tiny hint of skill required. Debuff arrows effects are also much weaker.

The arguments I can see against debuff arrows are either annoyance or reducing time to kill. These arguments are both valid, but I'd counter with the argument that debuff arrows offer a player an avenue to suffer the loss of 1-3 health potions, for the advantage they choose. This means players can adapt and choose a more interesting playstyle than just: sword. I personally hate being hit by poison or weakness, but I also love it because it makes combat so much more interesting than Loka combat or otherwise. You could make the exact same argument of annoyance against some guy sitting on a tower with a gun or some guy sitting in an ifv, these things are only counterable by using the same method, and they are annoying, but nobody should advocate for removing guns or movecraft because they both make combat way more interesting.

Just increase shield disable cooldown anyway, shields can even block gun damage by 30% so increasing it is still a fair tradeoff

"Hi my friend xtinc_t, you don't say anything with anything, but that's it, an inventory has 36 spaces, one for sword, one for food, one for weapon, one for ammo, one for pearls and one for compass, so there are 30 left spaces, and you always take 8 potions of speed and strength, thus having 22 spaces, if I take an ax I will only have 21 spaces for healing potions, which is VERY little, but since you almost don't do pvp, you don't know what that's it."
Your entire point is that you don't have enough space(which you do). And if you actually use guns, guns can counter shield PvPers easily. So stop coping just because you don't know how to use an axe nor a gun.

bro, weakness arrow only take away like 2 attack points. It's not a big deal.

those points are a big deal

Fighting with weakness is the equivalent to fighting without strength 2, which is a necessity for the type of pvp on nations, or fighting with a stone sword instead of diamond. It’s a big deal